I would like to personally welcome Battery Mooch to TasteYourJuice.com.
“Mooch” is well known in the industry as the “battery guy” and is quite popular on the ECF. I’ve worked with Mooch several times in the background and he’s always been quite helpful and knowledgeable in answering my questions.
Although I have some experience with battery testing, Mooch has all the experience I lack so I though it a good fit to offer him his own page here on TasteYourJuice.com.
If you look to the left, you’ll see the new Battery Mooch page under Information/Resources. His first article can be found there as well.
WELCOME MY FRIEND!
Who is Battery Mooch?
My name is John Muchow, some of you may know me as Mooch on ECF and FB and Mooch315
on ECR. I have been vaping since April, 2015 and haven’t smoked once since I
started!I was born and raised in New York City and still live there now. Since 1992 I have
been designing and building electronic devices for a large number of clients. My
first products were camera remote-control systems for sports photographers. As these
systems, and other devices, transitioned from wired to wireless the performance of
the batteries they used was very important as there was no way to replace them
during use. This led to me doing more and more battery testing and developing the
electronics to charge, test, and protect them.As battery technology advanced, from NiCd to NiMH to Li-Ion and now
ultracapacitor/Li-Ion hybrids, the devices I built and the battery testing I did
advanced along with them. I started specializing in power management electronics;
battery chargers, energy harvesters (for charging from heat, light, or
vibration/movement), power supplies, battery analyzers, electronic loads for battery
discharging, and battery management/protection systems. This is the work I still do
today.My clients have included the US Army, National Geographic, Sports Illustrated,
Eastman Kodak Company, and hundreds of other companies from large to small. Part of
the work I’ve done for a lot of my clients has been battery testing. Sometimes they
want to recommend a good battery to their customers. Other times they’re batteries I
have chosen to combine with my electronics to form a complete, protected power
source for them to incorporate into their products.Depending on my client’s requirements this testing can take up to several weeks to
complete. I use a subset of these tests when evaluating the batteries we use when
vaping. This includes continuous-current tests to establish the battery’s true (and
safe) ratings. They also help to determine if there’s any risk of venting if one of
our mods autofires or a mechanical mod’s button is accidentally pressed. The
pulse-current tests measure the degree of voltage sag we would see when vaping at
different current levels. Both types of tests are done the same way for every set of
batteries I test.This consistency in the testing allows for direct comparison of the performance of
different batteries even if the pulse discharging I do doesn’t match the way you
vape.Safety is my number one priority. While I often test at discharge current levels
that can result in unsafe battery temperatures, this is the only way to figure out
what a battery’s true and safe ratings are. No battery is totally safe but we can
certainly avoid taking unnecessary risks.My blog at ECF has the results of all my testing and a few articles on batteries,
battery safety, etc.:https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/mooch.256958/
I have also listed the equipment I use and the steps I follow when testing. This
allows anyone to replicate my tests if they want to:https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/my-cell-testing-equipment-and-setup.7431/
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/whats-done-for-each-cell-test.7433/
My battery test results offer you a resource you can use when choosing a battery
that will not only be safer for the way you vape but will also give you great
performance.I’m looking forward to contributing to TasteYourJuice.com and I want to thank
PBusardo for the opportunity to help spread the word on exaggerated battery ratings
and battery safety!Mooch
Latest Battery Updates
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Kdest Black 35A 2500mAh 18650 Bench Test Results…ridiculously overrated, one was a dud
Bottom Line: This is a rewrapped and ridiculously overrated 20A 2500mAh cell. In addition, one of the two that I purchased from Kdest was a dud cell (see test graph below). The one I could test performed close to, but worse than, the blue Samsung 25R5. Both Kdest cells were visually identical to the 25R2 (not the newer green 25R5).
Kdest has printed “MADE IN KDEST” on the metal can which is interesting considering that this is a rewrapped Samsung cell.
Pulse testing was not done as this is a rewrapped 25R2. The 18650 ratings table has been updated to include this cell.
The two cells were purchased directly from Kdest (http://www.kdest.com) for the purposes of testing.
Test results, discharge graph, photos: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/kdest-black-35a-2500mah-18650-bench-test-results-ridiculously-overrated-one-was-a-dud.777941/
All my test results to date: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
18650 current ratings and safety grades: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18650-safety-grades-picking-a-safe-battery-to-vape-with.7447
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Gpower Yellow/Black 20A 3000mAh 18650 Bench Test Results…a poor performing 17A 2800mAh battery
Bottom Line: This tested out as a poor performing 17A 2800mAh cell. The 20A 3000mAh Samsung 30Q delivers about 1600mAh at 20A down to 3.2V. This Gpower only delivers about 790mAh. And that was only after two cycles at moderate current levels to “break it in”, something that should never be required.
This cell doesn’t match the appearance or performance and of any Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo battery I have seen. It appears to be a China-manufactured cell and not a rewrap. It has “ICR” on the wrap but I don’t know which battery chemistry they’re using. “ICR” is used for both the chemistry that is in LiPo’s, lithium-cobalt (LCO), and for the “hybrid” chemistry that is in 25R’s, HE2/4’s, VTC’s, and other batteries, nickel-manganese-cobalt (NMC).
While the cell does list the continuous current rating in very small print on the “back” of the wrap it has its useless “pulse” rating in huge print on the “front” of the wrap. I feel this is misleading and I encourage all battery companies that sell to the vaping community to only use the continuous current rating in large print or to use both, e.g., “20A/40A” for this cell.
The 18650 ratings table has been updated to include this cell.
Test results, discharge graph, photos: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/gpower-yellow-black-20a-3000mah-18650-bench-test-results-a-poor-performing-17a-2800mah-battery.777193/
All my test results to date: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
18650 current ratings and safety grades: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18650-safety-grades-picking-a-safe-battery-to-vape-with.7447
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Gpower Yellow/Black 25A 2600mAh 18650 Bench Test Results…a poor performing 19A 2500mAh battery
Bottom Line: This tested out as a poor performing 19A 2500mAh cell. The 20A 2500mAh Samsung 25R delivers about 1300mAh at 20A down to 3.2V. The 20A 2600mAh Sony VTC5 delivers about 1250mAh. This Gpower only delivers about 750mAh. And that was only after two cycles at moderate current levels to “break it in”, something that should never be required. When discharged at its 25A continuous rating it became almost hot enough to boil water.
This cell doesn’t match the appearance or performance and of any Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo battery I have seen. It appears to be a China-manufactured cell and not a rewrap. It has “ICR” on the wrap but I don’t know which battery chemistry they’re using. “ICR” is used for both the chemistry that is in LiPo’s, lithium-cobalt (LCO), and for the “hybrid” chemistry that is in 25R’s, HE2/4’s, VTC’s, and other batteries, nickel-manganese-cobalt (NMC).
While the cell does list the continuous current rating in very small print on the “back” of the wrap it has its useless “pulse” rating in huge print on the “front” of the wrap. I feel this is misleading and I encourage all battery companies that sell to the vaping community to only use the continuous current rating in large print or to use both, e.g., “25A/40A” for this cell.
The 18650 ratings table has been updated to include this cell.
Test results, discharge graph, photos: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/gpower-yellow-black-25a-2600mah-18650-bench-test-results-a-poor-performing-19a-2500mah-battery.776965/
All my test results to date: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
18650 current ratings and safety grades: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18650-safety-grades-picking-a-safe-battery-to-vape-with.7447
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Gpower Yellow/Black 20A 2500mAh 18650 Bench Test Results…accurately rated, poor performing
Bottom Line: This is an accurately rated, but poor performing, 20A cell. The 20A 2500mAh Samsung 25R delivers about 1300mAh at 20A down to 3.2V. This Gpower only delivers about 700mAh. And that was only after three cycles at moderate current levels to “break it in”. Something that should never be required
This cell doesn’t match the appearance or performance and of any Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo battery I have seen. It appears to be a China-manufactured cell and not a rewrap.
While the cell does list the continuous current rating in very small print on the “back” of the wrap it has its useless “pulse” rating in huge print on the “front” of the wrap. I feel this is misleading and I encourage all battery companies that sell to the vaping community to only use the continuous current rating in large print or to use both, e.g., “20A/35A” for this cell.
The 18650 ratings table has been updated to include this cell.
Test results, discharge graph, photos: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/gpower-yellow-black-20a-2500mah-18650-bench-test-results-accurately-rated-poor-performing.776679/
All my test results to date: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
18650 current ratings and safety grades: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18650-safety-grades-picking-a-safe-battery-to-vape-with.7447
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Imren Gold 30A 3000mAh 18650 Bench Test Results…a ridiculously overrated battery
Bottom Line: This is an ridiculously overrated 15A battery. It’s great that it doesn’t have the useless “pulse” rating in large numbers on the wrap but its claimed 30A continuous rating is a huge disappointment. The Imren Gold 20A 2500mAh cell was accurately rated. I don’t know why they decided to exaggerate the current rating so much with this cell.
Perhaps it’s due to a misreading of the datasheet for the cell they rewrapped? This Imren looks and performs identically to the Sony VTC6 (but this can change at any time). As clearly shown in the VTC6 datasheet, it is rated at 30A only if you stop when the temperature reaches 80°C. Since this battery gets hot enough to boil water when discharged continuously at 30A this cannot be a 30A-rated battery.
The 18650 ratings table has been updated to include this cell.
Test results, discharge graph, photos: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/imren-gold-30a-3000mah-18650-bench-test-results-a-ridiculously-overrated-battery.776371/
All my test results to date: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
18650 current ratings and safety grades: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18650-safety-grades-picking-a-safe-battery-to-vape-with.7447
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Imren Gold 20A 2500mAh 18650 Bench Test Results…an accurately rated battery!
Bottom Line: Writing this test report is a real pleasure. Not only is this cell accurately rated, it doesn’t have the useless “pulse” or “max” rating in large numbers on the wrap. This is a good performing 20A 2500mAh cell that looks and performs identically to the LG HE4. The 18650 ratings table has been updated to include this cell.
Test results, discharge graph, photos: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/imren-gold-20a-2500mah-18650-bench-test-results-an-accurately-rated-battery.776175/
All my test results to date: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
18650 current ratings and safety grades: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18650-safety-grades-picking-a-safe-battery-to-vape-with.7447
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Sanyo 20700B 4000mAh 20700 Bench Test Results…a peek at the future?
Bottom Line: This Sanyo is one of the new generation of slightly larger cylindrical cells being brought to the market primarily for automotive use. It is 20mm in diameter and 70mm long, a 20700 battery. Other sizes and designations for similar cells from other manufacturers include 20650 and 21-70.
I am rating this cell at 15A 4000mAh. It runs a few degrees hotter than the HG2 (which is why the Sanyo has a lower rating) but at 10A and 20A continuous down to 3.2V the Sanyo lasts about 25% longer.
There is also a Sanyo 20700A cell which is rated at 3100mAh and about 30A. You’d have the capacity of a VTC6/30Q/HG2 plus a 30A rating for just a small increase in battery size.
Either of these Sanyo’s could be a very good choice to 3D print a custom battery sled for. City of Cloud was kind enough to send me a couple of their samples of the 20700B for this testing but no 20700A’s were available. I hope to get a couple of the 20700A’s soon.
I don’t know if any of these larger cells will eventually replace the 18650 but the Sanyo 20700B is hopefully just the first alternative cell that I’ll be testing that offers a good current rating and extra capacity over our 18650’s for just a small increase in size.
Test results, discharge graph, photos: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/sanyo-20700b-4000mah-20700-bench-test-results-a-peek-at-the-future.775809/
All my test results to date: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Sanyo NCR18650GA 18650 Retest Results…a great 10A battery
Bottom Line: This is great performing 10A 3300mAh-rated battery. The 18650 ratings table has been updated to include this cell.
Panasonic bought Sanyo’s battery business a few years ago so you can also find this cell being sold as a Panasonic.
Test results, discharge graph, photos: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/sanyo-ncr18650ga-10a-3300mah-18650-bench-retest-results-a-great-12a-battery.774493/
All my test results to date: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
18350/18500 ratings and pulse performance data: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18350-safety-grades-and-pulse-performance-data.7566/
18650 current ratings and safety grades: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18650-safety-grades-picking-a-safe-battery-to-vape-with.7447
26650 ratings and pulse performance data: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/26650-safety-grades-and-pulse-performance-data.7554/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Panasonic NCR18650BD 10A 3000mAh 18650 Bench Test Results…an good 10A battery
Bottom Line: This is a good 10A 3000mAh-rated battery. The 18650 ratings table has been updated to include this cell.
Test results, discharge graph, photos: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/panasonic-ncr18650bd-10a-3000mah-18650-bench-test-results-an-good-10a-battery.774265/
All my test results to date: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
18350/18500 ratings and pulse performance data: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18350-safety-grades-and-pulse-performance-data.7566/
18650 current ratings and safety grades: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18650-safety-grades-picking-a-safe-battery-to-vape-with.7447
26650 ratings and pulse performance data: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/26650-safety-grades-and-pulse-performance-data.7554/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: LG MJ1 10A 3400mAh 18650 Bench Retest Results…an good 10A battery
Bottom Line: This is a good 10A 3400mAh-rated battery that will often deliver 100mAh more at low current levels.
The 18650 ratings table has been updated to include this cell.
Test results, discharge graph, photos: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/lg-mj1-10a-3400mah-18650-bench-retest-results-an-good-10a-battery.774181/
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