I would like to personally welcome Battery Mooch to TasteYourJuice.com.
“Mooch” is well known in the industry as the “battery guy” and is quite popular on the ECF. I’ve worked with Mooch several times in the background and he’s always been quite helpful and knowledgeable in answering my questions.
Although I have some experience with battery testing, Mooch has all the experience I lack so I though it a good fit to offer him his own page here on TasteYourJuice.com.
If you look to the left, you’ll see the new Battery Mooch page under Information/Resources. His first article can be found there as well.
WELCOME MY FRIEND!
Who is Battery Mooch?
My name is John Muchow, some of you may know me as Mooch on ECF and FB and Mooch315
on ECR. I have been vaping since April, 2015 and haven’t smoked once since I
started!I was born and raised in New York City and still live there now. Since 1992 I have
been designing and building electronic devices for a large number of clients. My
first products were camera remote-control systems for sports photographers. As these
systems, and other devices, transitioned from wired to wireless the performance of
the batteries they used was very important as there was no way to replace them
during use. This led to me doing more and more battery testing and developing the
electronics to charge, test, and protect them.As battery technology advanced, from NiCd to NiMH to Li-Ion and now
ultracapacitor/Li-Ion hybrids, the devices I built and the battery testing I did
advanced along with them. I started specializing in power management electronics;
battery chargers, energy harvesters (for charging from heat, light, or
vibration/movement), power supplies, battery analyzers, electronic loads for battery
discharging, and battery management/protection systems. This is the work I still do
today.My clients have included the US Army, National Geographic, Sports Illustrated,
Eastman Kodak Company, and hundreds of other companies from large to small. Part of
the work I’ve done for a lot of my clients has been battery testing. Sometimes they
want to recommend a good battery to their customers. Other times they’re batteries I
have chosen to combine with my electronics to form a complete, protected power
source for them to incorporate into their products.Depending on my client’s requirements this testing can take up to several weeks to
complete. I use a subset of these tests when evaluating the batteries we use when
vaping. This includes continuous-current tests to establish the battery’s true (and
safe) ratings. They also help to determine if there’s any risk of venting if one of
our mods autofires or a mechanical mod’s button is accidentally pressed. The
pulse-current tests measure the degree of voltage sag we would see when vaping at
different current levels. Both types of tests are done the same way for every set of
batteries I test.This consistency in the testing allows for direct comparison of the performance of
different batteries even if the pulse discharging I do doesn’t match the way you
vape.Safety is my number one priority. While I often test at discharge current levels
that can result in unsafe battery temperatures, this is the only way to figure out
what a battery’s true and safe ratings are. No battery is totally safe but we can
certainly avoid taking unnecessary risks.My blog at ECF has the results of all my testing and a few articles on batteries,
battery safety, etc.:https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/mooch.256958/
I have also listed the equipment I use and the steps I follow when testing. This
allows anyone to replicate my tests if they want to:https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/my-cell-testing-equipment-and-setup.7431/
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/whats-done-for-each-cell-test.7433/
My battery test results offer you a resource you can use when choosing a battery
that will not only be safer for the way you vape but will also give you great
performance.I’m looking forward to contributing to TasteYourJuice.com and I want to thank
PBusardo for the opportunity to help spread the word on exaggerated battery ratings
and battery safety!Mooch
Latest Battery Updates
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Which is the best performing 3000mAh 18650 battery?
Is it the Samsung 30Q, Sony VTC6, or LG HG2?
Minding Your mAhs – Ep5 is up on my Battery Mooch YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/A3iojgT8j2Q
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Sony VTC6A 18650 Samples…beats VTC5A, estimated 2900-3000mAh, 20-25A
I received two pre-production or early production samples for testing from Vapcell. I was told that they will not be generally available for several months, perhaps the end of the year. I do not know who has them in stock now or when they will.
I am testing them now because of the large number of requests I received and to let vendors know how they perform. I will retest these when full production quantities are available as Sony might make small changes to the cell’s performance before then.
The two samples of the VTC6A I tested easily outperformed the VTC6. While the VTC5A hit a tiny bit harder than the VTC6A at the start of the discharge the VTC6A outperformed the VTC5A for the rest of it, especially at higher current levels. This is a great battery.
For a 20A continuous discharge the VTC6A runs at the same temperature as the VTC6 does at 15A. Sony will probably rate the VTC6A at about 5A higher than the VTC6. This means a continuous current rating of 20A for the VTC6A with temperature-limited operation at some point above that. My preliminary estimate for the VTC6A’s current rating is 20A, up to 25A if the temperature is kept below 80°C. This can change at any time as I learn more about this cell.
The VTC6A’s I tested delivered 2892mAh and 3008mAh at 0.5A. This is a larger than typical cell-to-cell variation for Sony cells. I don’t know why. The capacity might change a bit before the cells are available in full production quantities but I am estimating the VTC6A’s rating at 2900mAh minimum and 3000mAh typical.
I have requested a copy of the datasheet but no one has it yet.
Two cells were donated for the purposes of testing by Vapcell (www.vapcelltech). Thank you!
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/wT6ty
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in the tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market or we get swamped with fakes. Please, never assume that the ratings in the table are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Four videos now available on my YouTube channel
My Battery Mooch YouTube channel now has four videos on it with more to come. Topics include batteries for unregulated and regulated mods and do we need to “marry” our batteries?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCePHh3NMvu3rW2LFJeOWo-Q
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Avatar Controls 30A 4000mAh 21700…overrated, seems same as Basen and CoilArt
This cell is identical in appearance to the CoilArt 40A 4000mAh and Basen 30A 4000mAh cells. It performs the same as the Basens I tested but better than the two CoilArt cells I tested.
This Avatar reached the boiling point of water when discharged at its 30A claimed rating. I am giving it an estimated current rating of 20A, the same as the Basen and CoilArt cells.
It delivered 3963mAh and 3997mAh of capacity at 0.5A. Since the capacity rating should be lower than what any cell deliver in testing I am giving it a rating of 3900mAh.
Two cells were donated for the purposes of testing by Anthony Vapes (https://www.reddit.com/user/Anthony_Vapes). Thank you!
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/7rGxP
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in the tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market or we get swamped with fakes. Please, never assume that the ratings in the table are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Vapcell Purple 24A 3750mA 21700…conservatively rated, seems same as Golisi S35
This cell runs a bit cooler at its 24A rating than other 21700’s at their ratings and appears to be the same China-manufactured cell as the “40A” 3750mAh S35 from Golisi that I rated at 30A. Seems that Vapcell has decided to rate this cell conservatively. I applaud this decision and wish that more companies were willing to do this instead of exaggerating ratings to increase sales.
Our relentless desire for higher current ratings has caused the huge glut of batteries with exaggerated ratings being released as those companies try to tap into our desires. Rating a battery more conservatively not only gives us more realistic expectations for the capabilities of our batteries but increases safety and the overall life of the battery. The battery also operates more efficiently and this wastes less power inside the battery as heat. All good things.
The Vapcells tested out to a lower capacity than the Golisi cells I tested earlier but there isn’t much of a difference down to 3.2V, about the lowest we go. The differences only became really noticeable as the discharge approached my 2.5V testing cutoff voltage.
China-manufactured cells do have more variation in capacity than the ones from Samsung, Sony, LG, and Panasonic/Sanyo so this difference between the Vapcells and Golisi might not be present in all of their cells.
I am rating this cell at 24A and 3500mAh. I won’t recommend using a battery at above the manufacturer’s/wrapper’s rating but this Vapcell runs cooler at its rating than the Golisi does at its 30A rating and they appear to be the same cell.
Two cells were donated for the purposes of testing by Vapcell (www.vapcelltech.com). Thank you!
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/HA02V
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in the tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market or we get swamped with fakes. Please, never assume that the ratings in the table are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Samsung 30Q 3000mAh 18650…a great 15A/20 battery!
This is a retest of the popular Samsung 30Q. The four cells I tested, two from IMRBatteries and two from Illumn, showed the expected great consistency in performance.
The Samsung 30Q datasheet (Section 7.9) mentions operation at 20A. Operation at that level can be done as long as we don’t let the battery get above 75°C, its maximum rated operating temperature.
But this is not a high performance “power” cell, designed for high current. It is a high capacity “energy” cell designed for low to moderate power levels and long running time. At higher current levels the voltage sag and power loss in the cell are huge. Do not exceed 20A.
I am giving this cell a continuous current rating of 15A (about 45W using 3.7V) and a temperature-limited rating of 20A (about 60W if using 3.7V) as long as the cell is never allowed to reach 75°C.
This is not a “pulse rating”! There is no pulse length, time between pulses, or criteria used for setting such a rating being defined. The 20A rating is any type of discharge as long as the 75°C limit is not reached.
The 18650 rating table has been updated with the 15A/20A rating for this cell.
A “shootout” of the HG2, 30Q, and VTC6, directly comparing their performance, will be posted in a few days.
Four cells were purchased for the purposes of testing by me.
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/Iasun
Test results: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/threads/bench-retest-results-samsung-30q-3000mah-18650…a-great-15a-20-battery.846955/
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in the tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market or we get swamped with fakes. Please, never assume that the ratings in the table are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Conditionally extending the Samsung 30Q’s rating to 20A
To make the 18650 ratings table more consistent and prevent some of the confusion I was seeing I recently changed my continuous current rating for the Samsung 30Q from 20A down to the manufacturer’s rating of 15A.
This has its own problems as the rating in my table no long reflected this cell’s great performance. After reviewing the datasheet I have decided to extend the 30Q’s rating back up to 20A…conditionally.
The Samsung 30Q datasheet (Section 7.9) mentions operation at 20A. Operation at that level can be done as long as we don’t let the battery get above 75°C, its maximum rated operating temperature.
This keeps the ratings to what the manufacturer sets but allows operation at up to 20A, which was what my rating previously did. This is not a perfect solution but it’s the one I have now. Sorry for the confusion all this has caused. The tables will always be works-in-progress and I will continue to try to keep them useful tools for vapers.
The 18650 ratings table has been updated to reflect the 15A/20A rating this cell now has, along with the Sony VTC6. The LG is still rated at 20A continuous.
I will be posting a “shootout”, directly comparing the performance of these three cells, within a few days.
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Sony VTC6 15A 3000mAh 18650…a fantastic 15A/20A battery!
This is a retest of the great performing VTC6. Rating this battery, and the Samsung 30Q, for these retests has been tough.
Sony gives this cell a continuous current rating of 15A but allows for temperature-limited operation at a level above that. You can run it at above 15A but only until you reach a certain temperature, 80°C, and then the discharge must stop.
But this is not a high performance “power” cell, designed for high current. It is a high capacity “energy” cell designed for low to moderate power levels and long running time. At higher current levels the voltage sag and power loss in the cell are huge. Do not exceed 20A.
The four cells I tested, two from Illumn and two from Liion Wholesale, showed the expected great cell-to-cell consistency in performance.
I am giving this cell a continuous current rating of 15A (about 45W using 3.7V) and a temperature-limited rating of 20A (about 60W if using 3.7V) as long as the cell is never allowed to reach 80°C.
This is not a “pulse rating”! There is no pulse length, time between pulses, or criteria used for setting such a rating being defined. The 20A rating is any type of discharge as long as the 80°C limit is not reached. The Samsung 30Q’s rating will be addressed again in a post soon.
The 18650 rating table has been updated with the 15A/20A rating for this cell.
A “shootout” of the HG2, 30Q, and VTC6, directly comparing their performance, will be posted in a few days.
Four cells were purchased for the purposes of testing by me.
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/2bfgj
Test results: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/threads/bench-retest-results-sony-vtc6-15a-3000mah-18650…a-fantastic-15a-20a-battery.846895/
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in the tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market or we get swamped with fakes. Please, never assume that the ratings in the table are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Bench Test Results: Vapcell 32A 4200mAh 26650…same as good performing Aspire/Golisi/iJoy
I am delighted to see the ratings on this cell. It looks and performs the same as the good cell wrapped by Aspire, Golisi, and iJoy for their 4200mAh-4300mAh rated 26650’s (when I tested them) but this Vapcell has its 32A continuous current rating clearly marked on the wrap and no “pulse” or “max” rating. This is fantastic and I hope more companies start doing this.
I estimate this cell’s ratings to be 30A-32A and about 4200mAh. As with many cells that are manufactured in China there is greater cell-cell variation than from Samsung, Sony, LG, and Panasonic/Sanyo. That makes it difficult to pick a single number for the ratings.
Two cells were donated for the purposes of testing by Vapcell (http://www.vapcelltech.com). Thank you!
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/N6nJG
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in the tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market or we get swamped with fakes. Please, never assume that the ratings in the table are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Minding Your mAhs – Ep2
My second video is up!
Minding Your mAhs – Episode 2
Topics:
- Thank you!
- Cold weather and batteries
- Are there “best” batteries?
- Calculating battery current – Unregulated/mech mods
- Recommended batteries for unregulated/mech mods
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