I would like to personally welcome Battery Mooch to TasteYourJuice.com.
“Mooch” is well known in the industry as the “battery guy” and is quite popular on the ECF. I’ve worked with Mooch several times in the background and he’s always been quite helpful and knowledgeable in answering my questions.
Although I have some experience with battery testing, Mooch has all the experience I lack so I though it a good fit to offer him his own page here on TasteYourJuice.com.
If you look to the left, you’ll see the new Battery Mooch page under Information/Resources. His first article can be found there as well.
WELCOME MY FRIEND!
Who is Battery Mooch?
My name is John Muchow, some of you may know me as Mooch on ECF and FB and Mooch315
on ECR. I have been vaping since April, 2015 and haven’t smoked once since I
started!I was born and raised in New York City and still live there now. Since 1992 I have
been designing and building electronic devices for a large number of clients. My
first products were camera remote-control systems for sports photographers. As these
systems, and other devices, transitioned from wired to wireless the performance of
the batteries they used was very important as there was no way to replace them
during use. This led to me doing more and more battery testing and developing the
electronics to charge, test, and protect them.As battery technology advanced, from NiCd to NiMH to Li-Ion and now
ultracapacitor/Li-Ion hybrids, the devices I built and the battery testing I did
advanced along with them. I started specializing in power management electronics;
battery chargers, energy harvesters (for charging from heat, light, or
vibration/movement), power supplies, battery analyzers, electronic loads for battery
discharging, and battery management/protection systems. This is the work I still do
today.My clients have included the US Army, National Geographic, Sports Illustrated,
Eastman Kodak Company, and hundreds of other companies from large to small. Part of
the work I’ve done for a lot of my clients has been battery testing. Sometimes they
want to recommend a good battery to their customers. Other times they’re batteries I
have chosen to combine with my electronics to form a complete, protected power
source for them to incorporate into their products.Depending on my client’s requirements this testing can take up to several weeks to
complete. I use a subset of these tests when evaluating the batteries we use when
vaping. This includes continuous-current tests to establish the battery’s true (and
safe) ratings. They also help to determine if there’s any risk of venting if one of
our mods autofires or a mechanical mod’s button is accidentally pressed. The
pulse-current tests measure the degree of voltage sag we would see when vaping at
different current levels. Both types of tests are done the same way for every set of
batteries I test.This consistency in the testing allows for direct comparison of the performance of
different batteries even if the pulse discharging I do doesn’t match the way you
vape.Safety is my number one priority. While I often test at discharge current levels
that can result in unsafe battery temperatures, this is the only way to figure out
what a battery’s true and safe ratings are. No battery is totally safe but we can
certainly avoid taking unnecessary risks.My blog at ECF has the results of all my testing and a few articles on batteries,
battery safety, etc.:https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/mooch.256958/
I have also listed the equipment I use and the steps I follow when testing. This
allows anyone to replicate my tests if they want to:https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/my-cell-testing-equipment-and-setup.7431/
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/whats-done-for-each-cell-test.7433/
My battery test results offer you a resource you can use when choosing a battery
that will not only be safer for the way you vape but will also give you great
performance.I’m looking forward to contributing to TasteYourJuice.com and I want to thank
PBusardo for the opportunity to help spread the word on exaggerated battery ratings
and battery safety!Mooch
Latest Battery Updates
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Aegis Legend Water and Drop Testing
Bottom Line: While not indestructible or waterproof, as no mod can be, this is a very durable and water resistant mod. Three out of four survived ten drops onto a tile floor from one meter and all four survived ten drops onto a wood floor (all with batteries inside).
If yours drops into a puddle, toilet, etc., you should be able to wash it clean under running water without it leaking as long as you closed the battery door and charging port cover firmly. Never touch the six thin circular rubber membranes inside the top cover. If any of these are broken the mod will allow water inside.
These membranes are made very thin to allow them to break and let some of the gasses from a battery that is venting or in thermal runaway to escape the mod through the venting holes in the battery door.
Photos: https://imgur.com/a/7DEg4PR
More Details: The first two samples I received a while ago leaked badly even in just a couple inches of water. The next two samples I received did not leak into the device but there are a couple things to be aware of if yours is exposed to a lot of water:
– Water can gather just outside the seal in the battery door compartment in the mod. Just wipe it dry if you see this after exposing your mod to a lot of waster.
– Water can get caught inside an empty space in the battery door, making it seem like the mod has leaked. This water cannot get inside the mod though unless one or more of the inner circular rubber membranes are broken.
– There are two front panels for the mod; a decorative external one and the sealed inner one. Water can get behind the external front panel, and be seen over the screen, but that water should not actually be in the mod. It will eventually evaporate out if you leave the mod to dry for a day or two. The mod should be okay to use if this happens as none of this water should actually be inside the mod.
– If the mod is dropped your batteries can become dented on both the postive and negative end. The battery manufacturers say that no damage is acceptable and no data exists about what denting may or may not be safe for each battery. I am forced to err on the side of caution and recommend replacing your batteries if they are at all dented.
This is a great looking durable mod.
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: QSO Orange 30A 3100mAh 20700…a great 30A battery, beats VTC5A and 5-leg top contact 20700’s
This cell performed well, both its continuous current and capacity ratings are accurate, and only the continuous current rating is on the wrap of the cell. I love seeing this and hope it’s a continuing trend for other companies too.
This QSO outperforms both the Sony VTC5A and the 5-leg top contact 20700’s, hitting harder and running for longer. This cell roughly matches the Sanyo NCR20700A at 10A but the Sanyo is still the better performer at high current levels. It appears to be the same cell used by Vapcell’s gold 30A 3100mAh 20700.
Both cells I tested delivered more than 3100mAh when discharged at 0.5A down to 2.5V. I am estimating this QSO’s ratings at 30A and 3100mAh.
Two cells were donated for the purposes of testing by Qiso (https://qiso.en.alibaba.com). Thank you!
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/eEzzj9m
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in the tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market or we get swamped with fakes. Please, never assume that the ratings in the table are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: https://www.patreon.com/batterymooch
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Vapcell Purple 25A 3000mAh 18650…it’s a 20A VTC6A rewrap, better than VTC5A
This cell is identical in performance and appearance to the great performing Sony VTC6A. The VTC6A might not hit quite as hard as the VTC5A at the start but its 3000mAh capacity means it performs better than the VTC5A after that. The VTC6A is a great option for both regulated and unregulated mod users at up to 25A if you don’t get it hot.
The cells I tested still had a faint image of the Sony printing on the metal can indicating it was a VTC6A manufactured in November, 2016. Not a great date but it still performed better than the VTC5A.
I don’t have the VTC6A’s datasheet but my 20A-25A estimated rating for it seems to fit what I am seeing online, that it is rated 20A continuous with a temperature-limited rating of 25A. That is, if you don’t let it get hot (over 80°C) then it can be run at 25A.
This Vapcell’s 25A rating is a bit higher than the VTC6A’s continuous rating. But if you do not exceed 80°C then you can use it at up to 25A.
This Vapcell’s 3000mAh rating is accurate though and is my estimate until I get ahold of the VTC6A datasheet to see where they set the rated capacity and nominal/typical capacity.
I do not know who has this cell in stock or when anyone will be stocking it. Please check with Eciggity, your favorite vendors, or Vapcell for more information.
Two cells were donated for the purposes of testing by Eciggity (www.eciggity.com). Thank you!
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/udhDIkx
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in the tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market or we get swamped with fakes. Please, never assume that the ratings in the table are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: https://www.patreon.com/batterymooch
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: H-PRIV2 owners…Never operate your mod without both plastic battery tubes in place!
The tubes are held in place by an adhesive but in the one mod sent to me they were pulled out fairly easily. Without these tubes in place any tear in the wrap of your batteries could cause one of the batteries to be short circuited. This can cause it to overheat, vent, or even explode.
Always make sure both plastic battery tubes are in place before inserting batteries into your H-PRIV2!
Since I had the unit I decided I might as well do a tear down. They did not make it easy! The screws were hidden under very well stuck on side panels.
Tear down photos: https://imgur.com/a/QkoibiX
My sincere thanks to All Day Vapes for bringing this to my attention and sending me a unit to inspect!
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: EBAT 40A 3200mAh 20700…only 30A/3100mAh but bit better than 5-leg 20700’s
This cell is a good performer, outperforming the VTC5A and it’s a bit better than the 5-“leg” top contact cells wrapped by iJoy, Efest, Ampking, etc.
It is rated at 40A where the Wh and capacity specs are on the wrap but the 30A continuous current rating is mentioned on another part of the wrap. Why do this? The 40A rating is undefined and useless.
I could find no mention of this cell on EBAT’s web site or on Facebook.
This cell roughly matches the Sanyo NCR20700A at 10A but the Sanyo is still the better performer at high current levels. This EBAT appears to be the same cell as the Vapcell gold 30A 3100mAh but it doesn’t perform quite as well as the Vapcell version.
I am rating this EBAT at 30A and 3100mAh.
I do not know who has this cell in stock or when anyone will be stocking it. Please check with your favorite vendors or EBAT.
Two cells were donated for the purposes of testing by EBAT (www.ebatpower.com). Thank you!
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/XJgKd
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in the tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market or we get swamped with fakes. Please, never assume that the ratings in the table are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Vapcell Gold 4000mAh 30A 21700…appears to be Samsung 40T, beats 30T for regulated
The Vapcell is identical in appearance and even a touch better in performance to the Samsung 40T’s I tested four months ago. Perhaps they tweaked the chemistry of the 40T since my test of it or the samples I tested then were a lower grade.
The Samsung 40T, and this rewrap of it, are incredible performers. They easily hit harder than any other cell available to us except the Samsung 30T and are a great choice at higher power levels. This cell and the 40T easily outperform the Sanyo NCR20700A for both regulated and unregulated devices.
While the hard hitting 30T is the king for unregulated devices the 40T and this cell beat out the 30T for high power regulated devices, delivering 8.1Wh at 30A down to 3.2V (about 3.6V when put in a charger) versus about 7.3Wh for the Samsung 30T. The Sanyo NCR20700A only delivered about 5.1Wh.
I am rating this Vapcell at 30A and 3900mAh. Its “typical” or “nominal” capacity is about 4000mAh.
I do not know who has this cell in stock or when anyone will be stocking it. Please check with your favorite vendors or Vapcell.
Two cells were donated for the purposes of testing by Vapcell (www.vapcelltech.com). Thank you!
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/oY3lH
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in the tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market or we get swamped with fakes. Please, never assume that the ratings in the table are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Vapcell Purple 3100mAh 35A 21700…appears to be Samsung 30T, an incredible 35A battery
The Vapcell is identical in appearance and even better in performance to the Samsung 30T’s I tested one year ago. Perhaps they tweaked the chemistry of the 30T since my test of it or the samples I tested then were a lower grade.
The 30T, and especially this rewrap of it, are incredible performers. They easily hit harder than any other cell available to us and are a great choice for unregulated or regulated device users at higher power levels.
I am rating this Vapcell at a cool-running 35A and 3000mAh, same as the Samsung 30T. The typical capacity you get in use could be higher but the rated capacity is 3000mAh.
I do not know who has this cell in stock or when anyone will be stocking it. Please check with your favorite vendors or Vapcell.
Two cells were donated for the purposes of testing by Vapcell (www.vapcelltech.com). Thank you!
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/D8maY
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in the tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market or we get swamped with fakes. Please, never assume that the ratings in the table are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: PRELIMINARY Bench Test Results: Sony VTC5D 18650…around 25A, 2700mAh-2800mAh, beats VTC5A
I tested two samples of this cell which has been popping up in Asia. I haven’t been able to get the datasheet but preliminary testing shows it’s probably rated at about 25A continuous and around 2700mAh-2800mAh. It hits harder and lasts longer than the VTC5A and its performance is about equal to that of the incredible VTC6A.
There is a Vapcell discharge graph showing this cell delivering a bit over 2900mAh but my two cells delivered 2742mAh and 2796mAh at 0.5A down to 2.5V. The Vapcell test used a 1A discharge for their test and that slight warming, versus the lower rate 0.5A rate used by me, can lower the internal resistance which allows the cell to run at a slightly higher voltage which means it can run for longer before hitting 2.5V.
I do not know if this is why the Vapcell test shows this cell delivering over 2900mAh but the 1A discharge rate or a difference between the grade of the cells I had and what they had might explain it.
I do not know if the ones I tested are early production or pre-production samples so my ratings are just preliminary estimates for now. I will be retesting this cell when they become more available and will adjust the ratings if necessary then. I will also post their internal resistance and watt-hour specs then.
Two cells were donated for the purposes of testing by Vapcell (www.vapcelltech.com). Thank you!
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/LzCTc
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in the tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market or we get swamped with fakes. Please, never assume that the ratings in the table are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Efest Purple 35A 3700mAh 21700…only 30A but a great performer, similar to Golisi S35
This is a great performing cell but it runs at close to 90°C at its 35A continuous rating. This is too hot in my opinion for decent cycle life as most cells say not to exceed 75°C-80°C. I don’t know why Efest decided to exaggerate the rating but it was completely unnecessary.
Actually, I do know why…our obsession with high rating numbers. I just don’t like that these companies feed into that instead of just showing us it’s a great performing 30A battery.
This Efest’s appearance and performance is very similar to the Golisi S35 but different enough that I cannot say they are the same cell. The Golisi is a bit better performer at lower current levels but the Efest shows less voltage sag at the start at 30A.
I am estimating the ratings for this Efest to be 30A and 3700mAh. The 30A rating helps to keep its temperature down closer to the 80°C limit used by other cells.
Two cells were purchased for the purposes of testing by me.
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/1A7V6
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in the tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market or we get swamped with fakes. Please, never assume that the ratings in the table are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Can the 2500mAh VTC5A run for longer than the 3000mAh 18650’s?
The Sony VTC5A is more efficient, i.e., it has a lower internal resistance, than the 3000mAh Sony VTC6, Samsung 30Q, and LG HG2. This means it has less voltage sag when being used and takes longer to drop to a low voltage cutoff point. But does it hold its voltage up well enough to run for longer than batteries with 500mAh more capacity?
If you just compare the mAh delivered by both down to 3.2V (https://imgur.com/a/QvYU2) then it looks like the 30Q is equal to or better than the VTC5A. But for a regulated device the voltage the battery runs at is important too, not just the capacity. You want the battery to stay above the mod’s low voltage cutoff for as long as possible. The watt-hour (Wh) specification for the battery take both the voltage and capacity into account.
I compared the watt-hours delivered by the VTC5A and 30Q at 10A/30W and 20A/60W down to 3.2V (about 3.5V-3.6V when put on a charger). At 10A/30W the 30Q was the winner, lasting about 10% longer.
But at 20A/60W they both ran the same amount of time.
Why? The larger voltage sag of the 30Q shortened its running time enough that the VTC5’s greater efficiency, and smaller voltage sag, let it run for just as long.
Bottom Line: At up to about 17A/50W or so the 30Q, VTC6, and HG2 will run for longer in a regulated mod. At above 20A/60W the VTC5A is the better choice. It will run for the same amount of time or longer and will run cooler at any power level.
For an unregulated/mech mod the VTC5A is the better choice since it hits harder, i.e. runs at a higher voltage, at the discharge current levels typical for those mods.
The Sony VTC6 and LG HG2 perform about the same as the 30Q and these results will be about the same for them.
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