I would like to personally welcome Battery Mooch to TasteYourJuice.com.
“Mooch” is well known in the industry as the “battery guy” and is quite popular on the ECF. I’ve worked with Mooch several times in the background and he’s always been quite helpful and knowledgeable in answering my questions.
Although I have some experience with battery testing, Mooch has all the experience I lack so I though it a good fit to offer him his own page here on TasteYourJuice.com.
If you look to the left, you’ll see the new Battery Mooch page under Information/Resources. His first article can be found there as well.
WELCOME MY FRIEND!
Who is Battery Mooch?
My name is John Muchow, some of you may know me as Mooch on ECF and FB and Mooch315
on ECR. I have been vaping since April, 2015 and haven’t smoked once since I
started!I was born and raised in New York City and still live there now. Since 1992 I have
been designing and building electronic devices for a large number of clients. My
first products were camera remote-control systems for sports photographers. As these
systems, and other devices, transitioned from wired to wireless the performance of
the batteries they used was very important as there was no way to replace them
during use. This led to me doing more and more battery testing and developing the
electronics to charge, test, and protect them.As battery technology advanced, from NiCd to NiMH to Li-Ion and now
ultracapacitor/Li-Ion hybrids, the devices I built and the battery testing I did
advanced along with them. I started specializing in power management electronics;
battery chargers, energy harvesters (for charging from heat, light, or
vibration/movement), power supplies, battery analyzers, electronic loads for battery
discharging, and battery management/protection systems. This is the work I still do
today.My clients have included the US Army, National Geographic, Sports Illustrated,
Eastman Kodak Company, and hundreds of other companies from large to small. Part of
the work I’ve done for a lot of my clients has been battery testing. Sometimes they
want to recommend a good battery to their customers. Other times they’re batteries I
have chosen to combine with my electronics to form a complete, protected power
source for them to incorporate into their products.Depending on my client’s requirements this testing can take up to several weeks to
complete. I use a subset of these tests when evaluating the batteries we use when
vaping. This includes continuous-current tests to establish the battery’s true (and
safe) ratings. They also help to determine if there’s any risk of venting if one of
our mods autofires or a mechanical mod’s button is accidentally pressed. The
pulse-current tests measure the degree of voltage sag we would see when vaping at
different current levels. Both types of tests are done the same way for every set of
batteries I test.This consistency in the testing allows for direct comparison of the performance of
different batteries even if the pulse discharging I do doesn’t match the way you
vape.Safety is my number one priority. While I often test at discharge current levels
that can result in unsafe battery temperatures, this is the only way to figure out
what a battery’s true and safe ratings are. No battery is totally safe but we can
certainly avoid taking unnecessary risks.My blog at ECF has the results of all my testing and a few articles on batteries,
battery safety, etc.:https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/mooch.256958/
I have also listed the equipment I use and the steps I follow when testing. This
allows anyone to replicate my tests if they want to:https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/my-cell-testing-equipment-and-setup.7431/
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/whats-done-for-each-cell-test.7433/
My battery test results offer you a resource you can use when choosing a battery
that will not only be safer for the way you vape but will also give you great
performance.I’m looking forward to contributing to TasteYourJuice.com and I want to thank
PBusardo for the opportunity to help spread the word on exaggerated battery ratings
and battery safety!Mooch
Latest Battery Updates
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Vapcell Purple 30A 2400mAh 18650…Samsung 24S rewrap, fantastic performer, beats VTC5A/5D/6A
This is a rewrap of the Samsung 24S, appearing and performing identically to the Samsung. It is a great performing “power” cell for unregulated/mechanical devices. As of May 2018 the Samsung 24S hits harder than any other 18650 except the Samsung 20S down to about 3.4V. Below that point the 24S’ greater capacity holds its voltage up for longer.
I don’t have the datasheet yet to know the ratings for the Samsung 24S but I am estimating them to be 25A continuous (possibly higher, depending on Samsung’s criteria for rating this cell) and 2300mAh minimum and 2400mAh typical. If needed, these ratings will be adjusted once I see the Samsung’s datasheet. I am rating this Vapcell the same.
This Vapcell has an accurate capacity rating. I do not know if its current rating is a bit exaggerated or not until I see the Samsung 24S datasheet.
Two cells were purchased for the purposes of testing by me.
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/0cAEiAI
I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month and you would like early access to battery availability and testing news and a say in what I test then please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: https://www.patreon.com/batterymooch
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in my ratings tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market, we get swamped with fakes, or new information becomes available to me. Please, never assume that the ratings in the tables are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Samsung 24S 18650…fantastic, hard hitting 18650, beats VTC5A/5D/6A
This is a great performing “power” cell for unregulated/mechanical devices. As of May 2018 it hits harder than any other 18650 except the Samsung 20S down to about 3.4V. Below that point the 24S’ greater capacity holds its voltage up for longer.
At 25A the Samsung 20S is the clear winner. In the 15A-20A range it is a close race between the 24S and the VTC5A/5D/6A. You’ll have to test them to see which performs better for the way you vape.
I have often seen the 24S referred to as a 30A cell but it operates several degrees-C hotter than the 30A-rated Samsung 20S. In my opinion, the temperature difference between the 20S and 24S indicates to me that the 24S has a lower rating.
Typically, when the capacity of a battery goes up the current rating goes down as both of those require more room in the cell to be increased. The 20S has the higher current rating but the 24S has the higher capacity.
I don’t have the datasheet yet to know Samsung’s ratings but I am estimating them to be 25A continuous and 2300mAh minimum and 2400mAh typical. If needed, these ratings will be adjusted once I see the datasheet.
Two cells were donated for the purposes of testing by Vapcell (www.vapcelltech.com). Thank you!
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/tmEAHSb
I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month and you would like early access to battery availability and testing news and a say in what I test then please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: https://www.patreon.com/batterymooch
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in my ratings tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market, we get swamped with fakes, or new information becomes available to me. Please, never assume that the ratings in the tables are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Samsung 20S 18650…hardest hitting 18650 right now, beats HB6 and VTC6A
This is a great performing cell. Until now the only 30A 18650’s we had were the 1500mAh LG HB2/4/6. The Samsung 20S not only has increased capacity over those cells but it performs MUCH better too, giving us a lot more vaping time at high current levels.
It hits harder than any other 18650 down to about 3.3V and appears to have a true 30A rating.
At lower current levels, under 20A or so, there are better higher capacity choices. But at 30A the Samsung 20S is the clear winner. In the 20A-30A range it is a close race between the 20S and the VTC5A/5D/6A. You’ll have to test them to see which performs better for the way you vape
I don’t have the datasheet yet to know Samsung’s ratings but I am estimating them to be 30A continuous and 2000mAh. If needed, these ratings will be adjusted once I see the datasheet.
Two cells were purchased for the purpose of testing by me.
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/tircntr
I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month and you would like early access to battery availability and testing news and a say in what I test then please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: https://www.patreon.com/batterymooch
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in my ratings tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market, we get swamped with fakes, or new information becomes available to me. Please, never assume that the ratings in the tables are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Sony VC7 (not VTC7) 8A 3500mAh 18650…great battery for low power use
This is not the “VTC7” as there is no such battery. This is a great performing high capacity battery for vaping at 5A/15W (per battery) or less. It is up there with the other two best performing high capacity 18650’s, the Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA and the LG MJ1.
This cell, and any of the other over-3000mAh 18650’s, can be used at up to their ratings but their high internal resistance means there is a lot of voltage sag. They run a lot more efficiently down near 5A or less. Above 5A-7A the 3000mAh 15A-20A cell’s like the 30Q, VTC6, and HG2 become the better choice since they are a lot more efficient.
At 5A down to 3.2V the VC7 delivered 7.6Wh of energy. The MJ1 delivered 7.7Wh, essentially the same, and the NCR18650GA delivered 8.0Wh. The capacities of the two cells I tested were 3427mAh and 3473mAh, meeting Sony’s minimum capacity rating.
The NCR18650GA is still my number one choice for low power vaping or flashlight/powerbank use, but this cell is in the top three.
Sony rates this cell at 8A continuous and 3400mAh minimum, 3500mAh typical.
Two cells were purchased for the purpose of testing by me.
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/OJv7Nxc
I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month and you would like early access to battery availability and testing news and a say in what I test then please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: https://www.patreon.com/batterymooch
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in my ratings tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market, we get swamped with fakes, or new information becomes available to me. Please, never assume that the ratings in the tables are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Samsung 30T 21700 Retests…an incredible 35A 3000mAh battery!
My last test of the awesome 30T was a year ago with early samples so I wanted to retest them now that they are becoming more available.
The cells I just tested from Enercig and IMRBatteries (two cells from each) performed better than the 30T’s I tested earlier. I don’t know if this is because those earlier tests had lower grade cells or if Samsung tweaked the chemistry since then.
Right now this is the best performing cell available to us for higher power levels and unregulated/mech mod users. The 30T is a true 35A 3000mAh 21700 cell that hits harder than any other round battery we use. New cells are always coming out but the 30T is king right now.
I estimate this cell’s ratings at 35A continuous and 3000mAh.
For those who noticed that the average DC internal resistance of these tested 30T’s is 0.3mOhms higher than the average for Vapcell’s rewraps of the 30T please note that at 30A this only results in a 0.009V difference in how hard they hit. Nine one-thousandths of a volt. This difference is well within the typical cell-to-cell variation for internal resistance and could have easily been the other way around, with these 30T’s testing better than the Vapcell rewraps.
Two cells were purchased from IMRBatteries for the purpose of testing by me. Two cells were donated by Enercig (www.enercig.com). Thank you!
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/bZF78BT
I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month and you would like early access to battery availability and testing news and a say in what I test then please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: https://www.patreon.com/batterymooch
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in my ratings tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market, we get swamped with fakes, or new information becomes available to me. Please, never assume that the ratings in the tables are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Blackcell 50A 3100mAh 18650…exaggerated ratings, DO NOT BUY
This Blackcell has an exaggerated capacity rating and a hugely exaggerated current rating. Its performance and appearance are identical to the 15A/20A 3000mAh Sony VTC6 (15A continuous, 20A until cell temperature reaches 80°C).
Due to the exaggerated ratings I am giving this cell a Do Not Buy recommendation.
Blackcell has told me that they are rewrapping their 18650’s and will be issuing some sort of recall for the ones out on the market right now. They say they want to work with the community to have more accurate ratings on their batteries from now on. I told them that their actions will be what‘s important. We’ll see what happens.
The new wraps are supposed to have both an accurate continuous current rating and a ”pulse” rating. As this pulse rating is useless I am not happy to hear it will be used but an accurate continuous rating is a good first step. I will update you when I know more about all of this.
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/CKfXc4Y
I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month and you would like early access to battery availability and testing news and a say in what I test then please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: https://www.patreon.com/batterymooch
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in my ratings tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market, we get swamped with fakes, or new information becomes available to me. Please, never assume that the ratings in the tables are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Blackcell 40A 3100mAh 18650…exaggerated ratings, DO NOT BUY
This Blackcell has an exaggerated capacity rating and a hugely exaggerated current rating. Its performance and appearance are identical to the 20A 3000mAh LG HG2.
Due to the exaggerated ratings I am giving this cell a Do Not Buy recommendation.
Blackcell has told me that they are rewrapping their 18650’s and will be issuing some sort of recall for the ones out on the market right now. They say they want to work with the community to have more accurate ratings on their batteries from now on. I told them that their actions will be what‘s important. We’ll see what happens.
The new wraps are supposed to have both an accurate continuous current rating and a ”pulse” rating. As this pulse rating is useless I am not happy to hear it will be used but an accurate continuous rating is a good first step. I will update you when I know more about all of this.
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/CKoYBQh
I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month and you would like early access to battery availability and testing news and a say in what I test then please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: https://www.patreon.com/batterymooch
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in my ratings tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market, we get swamped with fakes, or new information becomes available to me. Please, never assume that the ratings in the tables are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Vapcell Purple 10A 1100mAh 18350…accurately rated
This Vapcell is accurately rated and wasn’t overheating at 10A continuous but, as with most 18350’s, there was a lot of voltage sag at 10A.
The two cells I tested delivered 1139mAh and 1186mAh at 0.5A down to 2.5V, meeting its claimed 1100mAh rating.
As this is the first 18350 I have tested in a long time I can not compare its performance to any others yet but the updated 18350 table will be released in a week or two and as other 18350’s are added it will be easy to compare them.
I am estimating this Vapcell’s ratings at 10A and 1100mAh but due to the normal limitations for any cell this small I recommend staying below 10A for better performance, long cell life, and reduced risk.
I do not yet know who will be selling this cell or when it will become available.
Two cells were donated for the purposes of testing by Vapcell (www.vapcelltech.com).
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/fdp0Lpc
I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month and you would like early access to battery availability and testing news and a say in what I test then please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: https://www.patreon.com/batterymooch
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in my ratings tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market, we get swamped with fakes, or new information becomes available to me. Please, never assume that the ratings in the tables are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Sanyo NCR2070C 20700…outperforms the NCR20700A, estimated 30A 3500mAh
This NCR2070C cell (not “20700C”) outperforms the Sanyo NCR20700A, making this cell the best performing 20700 available to us as of May, 2018.
The NCR2070C hits harder and runs for longer at both high and low current levels than the NCR20700A. It does run a bit hotter than the NCR20700A though by 3°C to 5°C.
The two cells I tested delivered 3471mAh and 3524mAh at 0.5A down to 2.5V. I suspect that this cell’s “minimum/rated” capacity is 3400mAh and its “typical/nominal” capacity is 3500mAh.
I am estimating this Sanyo’s ratings at 30A and 3500mAh. This might need to be adjusted once I have the datasheet.
I do not yet know who will be carrying it, who might be rewrapping it, or when it will become available. I will post when I do know.
Two cells were donated for the purposes of testing by Vapcell (www.vapcelltech.com).
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/R9q5Wxl
I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month and you would like early access to battery availability and testing news and a say in what I test then please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: https://www.patreon.com/batterymooch
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in my ratings tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market, we get swamped with fakes, or new information becomes available to me. Please, never assume that the ratings in the tables are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Ampking 40A-50A 3000mAh 21700…performs identically to Samsung 30T but in a different can
This cell performs identically to the incredible Samsung 30T, including temperature, but is in a different steel can. I was told it is a Samsung 30T by Ampking but I am unable to explain the use of a different can.
The Samsung 30T and its rewraps, like this Ampking, are the highest performing and hardest hitting cells available to us as of May, 2018.
This Ampking’s “40A-50A” current rating is exaggerated and undefined but the 3000mAh capacity rating is accurate.
I am estimating this Ampking’s ratings at 35A and 3000mAh, same as the Samsung 30T.
Two cells were donated for the purposes of testing by Ampking (http://www.ampking.com). Thank you!
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/vxrHPGi
I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: https://www.patreon.com/batterymooch
These tests only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in the tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market or we get swamped with fakes. Please, never assume that the ratings in the table are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
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