Here’s the latest from Brent Stafford at Regulator Watch:

Patience, due diligence and faith in the legislative process are a few of the essential elements of the vaping industry’s strategy going into this week’s presentations to the Senate’s Standing Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology.

What else? A readiness to educate, negotiate and fight, if necessary, for the changes in Bill S-5 deemed vital to the survival and longevity of Canada’s vaping industry. In part one of this two-part special, hear from Shawn Kreger Vice President and PR Co-Chair from the Canadian Vaping Association and get a preview of what the industry plans to fight for—only on RegWatch by RegulatorWatch.com.

RegulatorWatch.com – April 4, 2017.

I’ve driven to Toronto.
I’ve driven to Montreal.
I thought I was going to drive to this until I looked at the drive time.
Who knew Canada was so big!  🙂

I’m heading to EDMONTON CANADA this weekend with my pink pal Dimitris.  Hope to see you there!!

Click the banner for more information!

SUPPORT COLE-BISHOP!

Even if you’ve reached out to your lawmakers in the past, we need you to do it again. We have received word that the Cole-Bishop amendment is being seriously considered for inclusion in the FY2017 US budget.

But, this is not a guarantee. There are strong forces working against anything that might be perceived as a “Republican rider” in the budget bill. Even though Cole-Bishop is a bipartisan effort in support of what should be a bipartisan issue, the effort to modernize the predicate date for vapor products has been stripped out of the budget before.

We need your help to keep Cole-Bishop in the budget bill!

Please take a moment to call your representative and senators:

Sen. Charles Schumer (D)  – (202) 224-6542

Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D)  – (202) 224-4451

Rep. Louise Slaughter (D)  – (518) 455-2909

Points to discuss on your call:

• Urge them to support the Cole-Bishop language in the 2017 US budget bill
• If the predicate date for vapor products is not modernized, nearly all vapor products will be wiped off the market in 2018. Many businesses will start closing down this year.
• The FDA will still have the authority to regulate vapor products and common sense regulations like no sales or marketing to minors will remain unchanged.
• If you have time, briefly, tell your story about how vaping has helped you.

When you’re finished with your call, visit www.august8th.org and send an email.

Please share this URL with everyone. EVERYONE!

Thank you,

CASAA Legislative Team

…and we need your help to get vapor taxes and a place ban removed!

In case you haven’t heard, the NY Legislature failed to pass the state’s budget on time. In a statement released last night, Governor Cuomo has said he will give lawmakers and staff an extension through the weekend to work on finalizing the budget. This means that people will be at their desks in Albany this weekend answering phones and checking emails!

Please take a moment this weekend to make a call and send an email to

Sen. Joseph Robach (R)

(518) 455-2909

Asm. Peter Lawrence (R)

(518) 455-4664

Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D)

(518) 474-8390

 

Points to discuss on your call:

• Urge them to remove language about vapor products from the budget
  1. Remove the tax on vapor.
  2. Remove the indoor use ban on vaping.

• Tell them that extra taxes on vapor products would deny thousands in New York access to life-saving vapor products.
  1. A 40% wholesale tax in Pennsylvania has closed over 100 businesses and will fall short of raising the projected revenue.

• Briefly, tell your story.

When you’re finished with your call, follow up with an email

Take Action – Send a Message

________________________

Thank you,

CASAA Legislative Team

It’s widely believed that the LiPo battery packs used in DNA200/250 and custom box mods need to be charged/discharged several times before they reach their peak performance.

Is this true?

To find out I took three new 3S packs and balanced charged them at 5A on an iCharger106B+ to 12.60V followed by a discharge to 9.0V at 20A constant-current. I did this a total of five times for each pack with a 60 second rest between each step. A lot of effort was made to ensure that the pack temperatures were consistent from cycle to cycle.

As you can see there was no increase in the capacity of the pack or an increase in its voltage while being discharged (which would indicate a decrease in its internal resistance).

For two of the three packs I measured the internal resistance before and after the tests were done:

Turnigy 25C-35C 2200mAh before = 18.3 mOhms
Turnigy 25C-35C 2200mAh after = 18.5 mOhms

MaxAmps 100C 2250mAh before = 21.9 mOhms
MaxAmps 100C 2250mAh after = 22.8 mOhms

The break-in cycles didn’t lower the internal resistance of the packs. In fact, they did exactly what any use of the pack does…ages the pack and increases its internal resistance.

The break-in cycling did not improve the performance of any of the three packs. It only wasted five of the limited number of cycles available before the packs would need to be replaced.

I also did five break-in cycles for each of the ten 1800mAh 3S LiPo packs I recently tested. Those break in cycles were done at some pack assembler’s typical recommended levels, 1C charge and 2C-3C discharge. There was no increase in performance between cycle 1 and cycle 5 for any of the packs.

Will this be the case for every LiPo? I don’t know.

There might be some LiPo’s that were not fully formed (initialized) at the factory in order to save money. Their performance would increase during the first few cycles. There also might be some that were stored for a long time before being used. This can cause the thickening of an important chemical divider (the SEI layer) between certain parts of the battery, increasing its internal resistance. Cycling the battery can reduce its thickness and restore some performance.

I know that many in the R/C community feel strongly that this cycling is needed but the tests described above and my recent testing of ten different 1800mAh 3S LiPo packs showed no increase in performance after being cycled a few times.

I have an idea why some might feel they are seeing an improvement in performance though.

LiPo cells, which use lithium-cobalt chemistry, show a very small change in voltage for a big change in capacity during most of the discharge compared to other Li-Ion chemistries. This “flat discharge curve” is one of the big benefits of using LiPo’s.

But this flat discharge curve also means that just a small change in the voltage of the battery can result in a big change in the capacity the battery delivers to cutoff voltages above 3.2V or so. If the pack is warm its internal resistance drops and the voltage the pack runs at is higher. This allows the pack to run for a lot longer before dropping to the cutoff voltage.

Since the outer wraps of a LiPo pack are very effective heat insulators the internal temperature of a LiPo pack can be a lot higher than the external temperature. It can seem to be only a bit above room temperature but actually be much warmer. Unless the pack is allowed to sit for at least an hour after charging, two hours or longer for larger packs, the internal resistance could be lower than when the pack was first used in the tests.

This would cause the packs to run at a higher voltage, making it seem that its performance had improved with cycling. But the improved performance was really only due to the pack being warm.

I am not saying that everyone who cycles their packs and says they see an improvement is wrong!

I am not saying that no LiPo packs respond to break-in cycling!

I am merely saying that in my testing of thirteen different packs I see no sign of break-in cycling having any effect on performance. It shouldn’t though. Properly formed packs, not stored for months and months, should not need any sort of break-in to reach their best performance levels.

I’d be interested in hearing your experiences regarding breaking in LiPo packs, especially if you took measures to make sure internal pack temperatures were consistent for each cycle.

Thanks!

Here are the three discharge graphs: https://imgur.com/a/G0DSM

FROM THE TRENCHES: VTA WEEKLY UPDATE

This week has been another exciting week for VTA. VTA’s ranks continue to grow as an additional association has joined our membership! In addition, we are asking all state associations to be vigilant as budget bills are being filed, and several include burdensome taxes on vapor products.

THE FEDERAL FRONT

WE NEED YOU TO TAKE A MINUTE AND ADD THE NAME OF YOUR COMPANY TO THE INDUSTRY LETTER ASKING HHS SECRETARY TOM PRICE TO SAVE VAPOR!
As you may know, President Trump’s Administration has made rolling back burdensome federal regulations a cornerstone of its agenda. Limiting the harsh impact of the Deeming Regulation must be addressed now.

Please take a moment today and lend your business’ name to a letter urging HHS Secretary Price to delay full implementation of the FDA deeming regulation, which is the first necessary step in the larger effort to reform the way the FDA regulates the vapor industry.

EVERY VAPE SHOP SHOULD BE SIGNED ONTO THIS LETTER!

Join VTA’s Next Webinar on Marketing
In our continuing effort to inform and educate retailers and manufacturers on important regulatory issues, we are pleased to announce the next installment of 
VTA’s Compliance Webinar Series:

Marketing: Real Guidance for Navigating
 FDA
and State Laws 
on the Marketing and Sale of ENDS Products

Presented by

Chris Howard
Vice President, General Counsel, and Chief Compliance Officer
E-Alternative Solutions, Inc.

MONDAY, APRIL 3, 2017
1:00 p.m. (eastern) / 12:00 p.m. (central) / 10:00 a.m. (pacific)

CLICK HERE TO REGISTER

After registering, you will receive a confirmation e-mail
 containing information about joining the webinar.

VTA Asks All Vape Shops to Promote CASAA Call to Action.
This week, VTA asked all vape shops in its rapidly expanding network of 20+ state vapor associations to provide their customers an opportunity to write to HHS Secretary Tom Price asking for relief from the Deeming Regulation. We distributed campaign instructions, an in-store flyer, and the consumer letter drafted by CASAA. This will give your customers a great opportunity to engage and tell their personal stories to Secretary Price while asking for relief. Please make sure that all of your shops, and every other shop owner that you know, is joining in. If you don’t have the campaign information already, contact your state vapor association leader or e-mail info@vaportechnology.org and put CASAA CAMPAIGN in the subject line and we’ll get you the materials right away.

VTA Welcomes New Retail Board Member Stacey Hamilton!
This week, Vapor Technology Association Executive Director Tony Abboud announced that Stacey Hamilton, owner of Kaleidoscope Vapor and President of the Breathe Easier Alliance of Alabama (BEAA), is joining VTA as the organization’s newest board member.

Hamilton on joining VTA’s board: “My passion for advocating for the vapor industry is guided by fifteen years as a trauma and cardiovascular Computed Tomography Technologist where I witnessed firsthand the devastating medical impact of long-term smoking. Given my experience, I share VTA’s deep commitment to ensuring that vape shops remain the primary place for consumers to gather and access their life-changing products. I have been repeatedly impressed by how VTA thoughtfully and professionally addresses the many challenges our industry faces – especially at the retail level. I am thrilled to join VTA’s accomplished leadership team as we fight the FDA’s dangerous deeming regulation.” Click here to read the full press release.

TPSAC meeting in Silver Spring, MD – April 6, 2017
On April 6, 2017, FDA will present information to the Tobacco Products Scientific Advisory Committee(TPSAC) on the processes used in review of tobacco product applications, including premarket tobacco, substantial equivalence, and modified risk tobacco product applications. Topics will include the statutory standards applicable to the different types of applications, the scientific basis for review decisions, with a focus on PMTA and MRTPA, and the role of the Committee in the review process. Click here for more information.

Seating for this meeting may be limited, so the public is encouraged to watch the free webcast instead of traveling to the meeting. The link for the webcast will be available approximately 15 minutes prior to the beginning of the meeting each day. Click here to access the webcast.

THE STATE OF THE STATES

The Vapor Technology Association has been working tirelessly to protect the vapor industry over the last week. There are several issues and bills affecting the vapor industry noted below. There are also several outreach efforts by state associations to educate and inform state legislators about the vapor industry. Please contact us if you would like to be involved in these outreach and education efforts and we will connect you to your respective state association.

California Proposition 56 Implementation Update
The California Board of Equalization issued its initial discussion paper on the implementation of Proposition 56. This document is currently under review by VTA and California Smoke Free Organization (CSFO) and we will be providing guidance on it in the coming days. While this is only the initial discussion paper, not a final implementation of Proposition 56, we would like to thank CSFO for their efforts in educating the Board of Equalization. It is clear from the initial discussion paper that several of the recommendations CSFO made to the Board of Equalization were heard.  There is more work to be done on the proposition implementation and in the legislature. If you are in California, and not currently a member of CSFO, join by clicking here.

Montana Fighting 74% Wholesale Tax
The Montana vaping industry continues to fight a 74% wholesale tax that would decimate Montana businesses. Over the last week, you have stepped up and have delivered more than 5,000 emails to the Montana Senate members and the Governor. However, due to a procedural maneuver, the bill has been moved to the Senate Floor and may be heard in the Montana House next week. Watch for more calls to action and continue to stand up for Montana businesses and consumers.

Nevada Under Attack
The Nevada Vaping Association needs your assistance and help. AB 269 was introduced last week which would impose a 5 cent per milliliter tax on vapor products. The bill was held in committee, but this will not be the last effort to advance the bill. In addition, this week AB 450 was introduced which would add vapor products to the Nevada Clean Indoor Air Act! Click here to contact the Nevada Vaping Association and get involved.

Ohio Vapor Trade Association Leading the Fight Against 69% Wholesale Tax
The Ohio Vapor Trade Association is facing a 69% wholesale tax. The OHVTA will be setting up meetings with several legislators in the next couple of weeks to educate legislators and fight the tax. Click here to join OHVTA and join the fight!

GET SOCIAL / STAY CONNECTED

Get involved and save vapor!
We are on the right path, but in order to be successful, we present a unified front. This is why VTA wants YOU to get involved. Call your state legislator. Write your congressman. Because if we do not make our voices heard, the powerful interests that are working to defeat us will prevail.

To learn more about how to get involved in the fight to save vapor, visit www.vaportechnology.org and www.SaveVapor.org.

Please take a moment and forward this email to anyone you know will be interested in what’s going on and encourage them to sign up for our mailing list at www.vaportechnology.org or www.SaveVapor.org.

And, don’t forget to follow us on Facebook and Twitter.

Thank you for all you do to defend our industry!

Tony Abboud
Executive Director
Vapor Technology Association

Testing of the 1800mAh LiPo’s is done and I probably won’t be adding any others to the list for at least a couple of months. I’ll be catching up on some round cell testing and then the 2250mAh LiPo’s hopefully some time in April-May.

Here is the graph directly comparing the performance, at 20A continuous, of all the 1800mAh LiPo packs I tested. I’ve also included a table of the maximum temperatures measured during a 20A continuous discharge.

The Turnigy Graphene 65C is the best performer with the Turnigy Nano-Tech 65C-130C close behind. The MaxAmps 100C is clearly the worst performer.

The table of temperatures echoes what is seen in the graphs, with the the Turnigy Graphene 65C and Turnigy Nano-Tech 65C-130C having the lowest operating temperatures and the MaxAmps 100C having the highest temperature.

The 22°C spread between the hottest and coolest running packs at 20A continuous is huge and reflects the large differences in internal resistances between some of these packs.

It is the internal resistance of the cells that determines both the voltage sag and the amount of heat produced during a discharge. The cells with the lowest internal resistance will produce the least heat and be the best performers, running at the highest voltage.

As seen in the discharge graph and the temperatures table, a couple of the other packs still performed well. If their prices are lower than the top performers that could make them packs you should consider if money is tight.

Be aware of the sizes of each of these packs though! The Turnigy Graphene is larger than all the other packs. The MaxAmps is the smallest.

1800mAh LiPo ratings table: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/lipo-pack-safety-grades-and-performance-table.7807/

All my test results to date: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/

https://imgur.com/a/NmMvT

A PBusardo Review – The EHPRO Mod 101 + (Not A) Contests

In this video, we do some clarification & some follow-up, talk about a liquid line, review the EHPRO Mod 101, announce the last (not a) contest winner, and kick off a new one!

The Links:
Battery Mooch Information Mentioned In The Video
VonVape
Joshua Unger/VonVape Information Mentioned In The Video
EHPRO
Vape Sourcing

The Post Review Follow-up:

• 3/29/17 – The information came in at 4AM.  The device shuts itself off after 30 minutes.  This is why it didn’t bother me as much as with mods that shut off around the 5 minute mark.
• 3/29/17 – In the video I said the device works with an 18450 or 18500.  First, for that 18450 I meant to say 18490… surprised no one caught that yet.  Second, SupaDr00g commented that those batteries would not work so I took a closer look with two batteries I had on hand:

The AW-IMR 18490 did not work.  The threading on the larger tube section was not deep enough to allow the battery cap to tighten enough to make contact.  The BestFire 18500 did work.  They are both button top batteries.  Keep that in mind should you want to use the device in “18500” mode:

AW-IMR ≈ 49.2mm
BestFire ≈ 50.7mm

BTW – Never measure battery length with metal calipers.  😉

The Video:

*NOTE: Any use of these videos in part or in their entirety without Phil Busardo’s expressed written consent is strictly prohibited.

The Photos:

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Bottom Line: I realize that this pack is widely used and loved by many vapers. These test results are not an indictment of anyone or anyone’s decision to use this pack. Its performance is what it is, no matter who uses it or how it’s used.

Hopefully though it’s no surprise that a pack that is both smaller and having a higher capacity rating than others in its class also has a higher internal resistance, adversely affecting its performance. It’s no different than the round cells we use. Higher capacity means a lower current rating. We can’t have the highest capacity and the highest current rating in the same cell….or lipo pack.

This MaxAmps is stunningly, absurdly overrated. It has the highest internal resistance I’ve tested in an 1800mAh-class pack and is by far the worst performer. It reached the maximum internal temperature of 60°C at only 10A continuous and 30A pulsed. A single 30A continuous discharge severely damaged the pack.

Its internal resistance is more than double the average for the other packs, resulting in truly huge voltage sag. Discharging this pack at its 185A, “True 100C”, current rating would result in about 7.7V of voltage sag, instantly bringing the pack voltage down to about 4.9V. This makes this pack’s 185A rating utterly useless for even the shortest of pulses.

The pack is available with 12AWG and 16AWG wiring. The test results were almost identical for both wire sizes, showing that the cell resistance is much, much higher than any changes in wire resistance.

MaxAmps sells this pack with 16AWG wiring as the “Standard” configuration and 12AWG wiring as an upgrade. This is astounding to me. This pack’s 185A rating is far above the 117A “fusing current” rating for 16AWG wire, the current level at which the wire melts after several seconds.

Yes, melts.

Even just a short pulse applied at this pack’s “True 100A” rating could raise the 16AWG wiring’s temperature to several hundred degrees.

The two packs I tested here were purchased directly from MaxAmps and are not “bad packs”. I also did some preliminary testing of a third pack a couple months ago and it had an internal resistance of about 45mOhms, matching the terrible performance of these two.

Having said all this though the pack’s performance is still better than any 18650’s in a sled (where the internal resistance totals at least 75mOhms) at 30A or less. Combine this with the MaxAmps’s small size and you still have a pack that can be used very successfully in lots of vaping setups. It’s an especially good match with regulator boards in the 200W-250W range, combining small size and adequate power handling. If you have the extra room though there are better performing packs available for higher power/current LiPo setups.

CAUTION: LiPo’s use the most volatile of the Li-Ion battery chemistries and can cause extreme injury if abused. Never use a LiPo unless the cells, wraps, wiring, and connector are in perfect condition. Never exceed the CDR of the LiPo unless you understand and accept the risks involved. You are responsible for your own safety, be careful!
My Ratings:
– Capacity = 1800mAh
– Continuous Discharge Rating (CDR) = 10A (6C)
– Average Pack IR = 41.2mOhms
– Average Cell IR = 12.7mOhms
– Dimensions/Weight = 87 x 36 x 21mm/16AWG wiring =124gms, 12AWG wiring=128gms

IR = Internal Resistance
mOhms = milliohms
Test results, discharge graph, photos: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/maxamps-100c-1850mah-3s-lipo-pack-bench-test-results-tiny-but-only-a-6c-17c-pack.795569/

LiPo ratings table: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/lipo-pack-safety-grades-and-performance-table.7807/

All my test results to date: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/